I first met Courtney Maum back in January of 2020. I interviewed her for Write or Die during the release of her book, Before and After the Book Deal. I was beyond excited she agreed to a phone interview with me, especially because, at the time, WOD was still on the newer side. I remember Courtney and I spoke about how cold it was, both her Connecticut hometown and my Massachusetts one, on the tail end of a snowstorm. We spoke about the publishing industry, the spark that inspired this book project, and the importance of finding your own definition of success as a writer.
We also talked about money, something that came up in this week’s episode of In the Weeds as well. I admire how Courtney never shies away from discussing compensation, whether it be in the publishing world or the realities of the teaching industry. It was fun to speak with her in this episode about the stigma of jobs like service industry ones, to which she had a very positive outlook. Working in restaurants or retail can provide a very stable life for a writer, one that pays the rent and leaves time to work on your art.
“And that's the fault of teachers in our line of work being squeamish around talking about money. I think it's elitist and frankly… it's harmful. It's harmful to not say to people, you know, what? Go work for Starbucks for two years and work on your novel on the side. What's wrong with that?”
I’m thrilled to have spoken with Courtney again, whom I often refer to for writing tips and wisdom because she is truly the best and so generous with her resources for writers of any and all genres, backgrounds, or career paths. I hope you enjoy our conversation!
In this episode, we talk about:
Courtney’s time working at a restaurant in France
Her past employment as a crepe maker and a barista at Starbucks
How stepping outside of your comfort zone and interacting with people from different backgrounds can be valuable for writers
The flexibility service industry jobs allow and how that benefitted her writing life.
How the publishing and teaching industries can be elitist and fail to provide practical advice on job opportunities and rates of pay
The stigma around restaurant work and how it needs to be reversed.
Country club culture
Other job opportunities that can provide financial stability while pursuing a writing career.
Book mentioned:
Love Me Back by Merritt Tierce
“At this point, I've spoken at countless universities and nobody asks like, hey, what hourly jobs got you to where you are? There's just this assumption that you were independently wealthy or had some aunt funding you, or this magic happens overnight. And for most people, no…You get your work done, and you make the amount of money that you need to live. And then on the side, you write your book, and hope that one day your writing will get you to a place where you can leave the creperie. We don't talk about that enough. And again, I think the stigma that some people feel about restaurant work is absurd and really needs to be reversed.”
About Courtney Maum
Formally employed at:
Starbucks in Stamford, CT and Providence, Rhode Island (barista)
The Blue Room café in Providence, Rhode Island (waitress, sandwich maker + barista)
The Creperie in Providence, Rhode Island (disgruntled crepe maker and waitress)
Some terrible salad restaurant on Rue de Lappe in Paris whose name I can’t remember (disgruntled salad maker and waitress)
Tradelink (alcohol distribution company) in Paris, France where I drove a Coronamobile around Paris for 3 years (salesperson and party promoter)
The Southfield Store in New Marlborough, Massachusetts (barista + sandwich maker and waitress)
Author of: The novels I AM HAVING SO MUCH FUN HERE WITHOUT YOU, TOUCH, and COSTALEGRE, the publishing guidebook “Before and After the Book Deal: A Writer’s Guide to Finishing, Publishing, Promoting and Surviving Your First Book” and the memoir THE YEAR OF THE HORSES.
Favorite writing ritual: My favorite daily ritual is simply bringing a mug of my beloved Yorkshire tea blend to my desk in the morning and getting to work, but one of my favorite longer term rituals is sending a finished draft of a manuscript to the Staples closest to me, ordering it binded and laminated, and getting a chocolate milkshake on the way to pick it up after a pitstop at the Super Goodwill for nonsense I don’t need. It’s a small celebratory act that I’ve done each time I have a book-length draft of something in workable shape!
Favorite cocktail to order from the bar: If I am actually at the bar, a margarita with salt rim. If I’m dining and the drink is going to be brought to me, a dirty martini. (If I have to carry around a dirty martini, I will spill it everywhere.)
Favorite meal to order: Steak, fries, some kind of wilted green. I’m sorry, cows!
What she does for work now: I write books and I coach writers in a variety of ways: I have a bestselling Substack newsletter called “Before and After the Book Deal” that has weekly publishing and writing tips; I run a writing retreat called “Turning Points” (that’s open for applications now!); and I do individual consultations and customized coaching for people writing in almost every genre; and I run online writing classes through CourtneyMaum.com I also have a child and pets, which requires work, as well!
Bio: Courtney is the author of five books, including the groundbreaking publishing guide that Vanity Fair recently named one of the ten best books for writers, BEFORE AND AFTER THE BOOK DEAL and the memoir THE YEAR OF THE HORSES, chosen by The Today Show as the best read for mental health awareness. A writing coach, executive director of the writing retreat “Turning Points” and educator, Courtney's mission is to help people hold on to the joy of art-making in a culture obsessed with turning artists into brands. You can sign up for her publishing tips newsletter and online masterclasses at CourtneyMaum.com
I blame MFA programs for not positing restaurant work as a viable option at the beginning of a writer's career”
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“Go work for Starbucks for two years and work on your novel on the side. What's wrong with that?”